kangmi: learning korean

What about all the Korean immigrants in Canada and the U.S. who can't speak English? Many of them never leave Korea town - it's the same thing.

pot meet kettle

Oh, there are plenty of directions one could take with this. But she has a valid point.

And she, having lived in America, knows whereof she speaks.

actually I disagree with her. While I support learning Korean and as much as possible it is not always realistic for English teachers.

First off the 3D workers are in an environment where everyone expects them to use Korean on a day to day basis. However English teachers specifically and caucasian foreigners in general are expected to not know Korean and use English on a regular basis. See my post Stonewalled when Speaking Korean for details.

I don't know how many times Koreans refuse to speak to me in Korean because they want to practice English. With this kind of attitude it is not difficult to see why caucasian foreigners have trouble learning the language. Additionally 98-99% of English teachers are only in Korea for one year, what need have they to learn the language other than survival Korean. It really is only the veterans who need to know more than that.

I would like to ask the author if she first speaks in English or in Korean when she meets a caucasian in Korea? if she speaks in Korean first then I would be very surprised. If she speaks in English, which is most likely, then I would say that she is actively encouraging English teachers to continue using English and not bother learning Korean.

Finally I have to say that when you entire working life is in English there is little opportunity for Korean usage outside of asking how much something costs or asking for directions somewhere. Most English teachers use English in the classroom and have English speaking support staff precisely because most of them are FOB and are not expected to use Korean at all. However for Koreans living/working/studying in the U.S. or any English speaking country they are expected to use English because no one understands or wants to learn Korean. Their entire life is expected to be in English. The exact opposite situation happens in Korea.

Anytime I walk into any sort of business I can immediately see the panic on faces of employees. When I speak Korean they refuse to hear it and assume I am speaking English.

I suggest the author of that article get off her high horse.

You raise some valid points, and I know that you've left out a few that you could have made.

I have hopes that the author will have some more to say on the subject here this week.

some very good points from 음치. koreans should share a lot, if not equal blame for english teacher's lack of korean skills

Do Koreans contribute to teachers' not speaking Korean by using English? Sure. (If Koreans could not speak English, we would be forced to learn Korean, the way workers from third world countries are!) But should they share they blame? No way.

Outside of wanting to practice English, why do they speak English to us? Because the majority of Caucasions they have met DO NOT speak Korean. Continuing to speak Korean to them would seem futile. As much as it irritates me at times, I know they are trying to help.

For myself, I think that going to a foreign country without attempting to learn the language is rude. I try to learn and use a little bit, even if I'm only staying for a few days. I think it says, "I value your culture".

I certainly understand that there are many reasons or excuses for not learning Korean: lack of time, motivation, necessity, interest, perseverance... But the responsibility is square on the shoulders of the learner. The least we can do if we choose not to learn the language of our host country is to not blame them for it!

Hello everyone, longtime listener, first time caller!

Getting enough Korean practice in Korea is the bane of my life, and I have had a lot of the problems that previous commentators have mentioned, but in most cases where Koreans speak English to me I've had to accept that this was logical and natural behaviour on their part no matter how frustrating and annoying to me.

For instance, being scared of or only speaking English to foreigners is pefectly reasonable when 99% can't speak any Korean. More importantly, I've learned that continuing to do so while you're speaking fluent Korean isn't being unfriendly or wanting free English practice either: unlike Western countries, where we're used to varieties of foreigners trying to speak English in various strange accents and levels of abilities, to almost all Koreans there's those that can speak Korean fluently and those who can't, and so with my very strange Korean accent it can take a loooong time for average Koreans to realise that I'm speaking Korean at all. This took me much longer to realise, and it still annoys me a great deal, despite intellectually knowing the reasons for it.

Please forgive me if these points have already been mentioned, especially in the comments to 왕은치's post which I've only half-read.
Having said all that, I disagree with smiles that Koreans are in no way blameless for foreigner's lack of Korean ability. English learners like the Korea Herald writer especially are notorious for lamenting foreigners lack of Korean while only speaking English to them, as well as saying that Japanese speakers learn quicker because of shared grammar, never realising that Koreans thinking that they are Korean and so speaking Korean to them plays an equally big role in it.

This ties in to my own and others' observation that Koreans do not look at things from other people's perspective enough. If some people regard this comment as racist, then so be it.

But those things are minor. To step back and see the forest without the trees for a moment, if having a conversation in Korean in Korea for more than 2 minutes is so difficult, then of course Koreans are partially to blame for it!

To do so, I have to pretend to be Polish and say in Korean that I don't speak English. I'm not a masochist, if a clerk's bad English gets the point across then I'm not going to say I'm Polist and insist they say it again in Korean. But to someone wanting a friendly chat with me on the subway then I do say that, and 5 times out of 10 their interest in me interest in me completely and instantly evaporates and they (quite rudely) pretend they didn't say anything to me at all. The other 5 times, they simply cannot handle the concept of me not being from an English country, and will continue to speak English to me despite my protestations that I can't understand them, and it can take as long as 10 mins for them to give up. Why? Two possible reasons: a) they're simply stupid, which is certainly possible for some of them(!) but presumably not for the successful teachers, doctors, lawyers etc. who've asked me, or b) they have very bizarre and flawed images and beliefs about foreigners and the world outside of Korea, and this affects the way they deal with foreigners. Which one sounds more reasonable to you?

Oh my, this is long and semi-rant like, especially for a first post. Sorry! I just have a lot of time to brood in my completely mute daily-life I have here! :)

Please let me know what you think!

James,

I support your comment. Yes much of that is covered in the link I provided above, but it doesn't hurt to revisit it here or on other blogs as well.

I don't mean any offense 왕은치, but I'm not sure if you meant I should personally visit the link or other blogs on the subject or if it's just a good idea in general to revisit them. Probably my fault, when I said I had only half-read your post I meant I'd only half-read your "Stonewalled" link and the comments to that, not just your post here.
Either way, I should have said one eighth-read perhaps, because I did go back to the link and read the comments thoroughly this time, and if I had originally I definately wouldn't have ranted so much!

I hate to sound like I'm back-flipping and/or indecisive, but learning about Spanish language students having the same problems speaking in Mexico that I have in Korea was quite suprising to me, and that Koreans have to worry about looking good to other Koreans when they speak to me....both obvious in hindsight, but I'd never really thought too deeply about either.

That these issues might be universal and not Korean will force me to abandon some pretty firm views I have about Koreans that I've gained from being here 7 years. I'm not sure I will, old habits die hard, but I've definately been given some food for thought. At the very least, I'll definately bear it in mind when I get to speak Korean next.

Long term visitors to Korea who don't learn the Korean language should usually have their entitlement to a visa withdrawn. Quite apart from the effect on Korean society of hosting people who do not play a full role in it, these people should be encouraged to go home for the benefit of their own mental health.

Max,
You sound like a language nazi. I support learning the language, but it isn't 100% necessary and doesn't mean that a non-Korean speaking long term resident is mentally unstable or undesirable in someway.

either you are a troll or you have issues of your own that need to be dealt with.

One good way would be to get a pen pal that speaks fluent Korean. You could send snail mails or e-mails with them and improve your grammar and vocabulary that way.
You could also watch Korean movies or Korean dramas to hear the proper pronunciations.
Make sure you choose the ones that are mostly in the standard seoul Korean. Korean has many dialects (Korean that people in Seoul speak are considered standard I think.. Busan Korean has dialect etc etc).